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Big Bang Theory 
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Post Big Bang Theory
I don't really buy into the "big bang" theory myself. I've got no freakin idea where it all came from, but that concept doesn't make sense to me. If it was true, it seems that all matter should be moving in straight lines away from the center and we should be able to plot a few vectors and triangulate back to the place of origin. All matter should be scattering farther and farther apart because in space there is no resistance and therefore no reason for anything to slow down from the initial explosion.
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:02 am
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Post Re: Big Bang Theory
Mr_Spock wrote:
I don't really buy into the "big bang" theory myself. I've got no freakin idea where it all came from, but that concept doesn't make sense to me. If it was true, it seems that all matter should be moving in straight lines away from the center and we should be able to plot a few vectors and triangulate back to the place of origin. All matter should be scattering farther and farther apart because in space there is no resistance and therefore no reason for anything to slow down from the initial explosion.
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The matter is not "flying apart"--the space between matter is increasing. Imagine a deflated balloon. Make a bunch of dots with a marker all over the balloon, then blow it up. From the perspective of any one dot on the balloon, all the other dots are moving away from it. But from the perspective of any other dot, that dot, and all the others, would be moving away from it.

You can't plot vectors to find the center of the expansion because the center of the expansion of the balloon is not located on the balloon's surface. It's in the center of the balloon's volume. A balloon's surface can be described as a 2-dimensional surface suspended in 3-dimensional space. When the balloon is blown up, the surface area increases. Our universe can be described as a 3-dimensional volume suspended in 4 or more dimensions (and that's spacial dimensions, not counting time). The center of our universe's expansion lies outside of our spacetime, just like the center of a balloon's expansion lies outside of the surface of the balloon.

From our perspective, every galaxy in the universe is moving away from us (except Andromeda, which is being pulled towards us by gravity). We know this because the light from other galaxies is red-shifted from the Doppler effect (same thing that makes the pitch of a police siren get higher as it approaches you, then get lower as it drives away, only applied to light waves instead of sound waves).

The fact that the universe is expanding is essentially unquestionable, unless there is a major shift of paradigm in physics. The controversies surrounding Big Bang theory lie mainly in questions about how the event was triggered, the rate of the expansion in the past, and the rate of expansion in the future, as well as why the rate of expansion is increasing, rather than decreasing as it should with gravity.

This increase in the rate of expansion is attributed to something called "dark energy"--meaning, the physicists have no clue. Basically you can compare it to the person blowing up the balloon blowing a little harder so the balloon blows up faster.

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Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:48 am
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Post Re: Big Bang Theory
Phædrus wrote:
The matter is not "flying apart"--the space between matter is increasing. Imagine a deflated balloon. Make a bunch of dots with a marker all over the balloon, then blow it up. From the perspective of any one dot on the balloon, all the other dots are moving away from it. But from the perspective of any other dot, that dot, and all the others, would be moving away from it.

Isn't that what I said? The rest of the universe is moving away from us, but not in a straight line.

Phædrus wrote:
You can't plot vectors to find the center of the expansion because the center of the expansion of the balloon is not located on the balloon's surface. It's in the center of the balloon's volume.

I realize that. All the vectors should point to the center. Possibly there's a spot of matter at the center that doesn't move because the energy of the explosion was equal and balanced spherically around it. Somewhat like an early design for an atomic bomb that involved a spherical chemical explosion to force an implosion of the fissionable material to force it to critical mass.

Phædrus wrote:
From our perspective, every galaxy in the universe is moving away from us (except Andromeda, which is being pulled towards us by gravity). We know this because the light from other galaxies is red-shifted from the Doppler effect (same thing that makes the pitch of a police siren get higher as it approaches you, then get lower as it drives away, only applied to light waves instead of sound waves).

Discovered by Edwin Hubble.

Phædrus wrote:
The fact that the universe is expanding is essentially unquestionable, unless there is a major shift of paradigm in physics. The controversies surrounding Big Bang theory lie mainly in questions about how the event was triggered, the rate of the expansion in the past, and the rate of expansion in the future, as well as why the rate of expansion is increasing, rather than decreasing as it should with gravity.

This increase in the rate of expansion is attributed to something called "dark energy"--meaning, the physicists have no clue. Basically you can compare it to the person blowing up the balloon blowing a little harder so the balloon blows up faster.

One of Newtons Laws says that as the matter flies through space it will neither change velocity or direction unless some other force acts upon it. I think the Big Bang Theory is somewhat like religion, It was conceived in order to explain things that we have no idea about and is accepted on "faith". Now they're trying to force the data to fit the theory, instead of changing the theory to fit the data.

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Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:52 pm
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Post Re: Big Bang Theory
You think they don't realize that? Big Bang theory is being changed to fit the data all the time. Look up "Loop Quantum Gravity." As for a force being needed to act on matter, of course physicists know that. That's why they came up with "dark energy"--the only way they could describe the force being imparted to all the matter of the universe.

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4. Giving up freedom for security is beginning to look naïve.
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16. There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool following it.


Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:17 pm
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Post Re: Big Bang Theory
Phædrus wrote:
You think they don't realize that? Big Bang theory is being changed to fit the data all the time. Look up "Loop Quantum Gravity." As for a force being needed to act on matter, of course physicists know that. That's why they came up with "dark energy"--the only way they could describe the force being imparted to all the matter of the universe.

That's what I'm saying, Phae, they don't know and don't want to abandon The Big Bang so they made something up to try to explain it. They change it, but still insist on it. I think that one day they'll abandon it altogether. Especially if they discover the nature of "dark" matter. It should be ever expanding just the same as all the other matter.
I'm going to look up "Loop Quantum Gravity".

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Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:56 pm
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Post Re: Big Bang Theory
almost at any theory has probleam:
einstein didnt find the Ether--- http://www.tu-harburg.de/rzt/rzt/it/Ether.html

Quantum ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanta ) do not go well with Special relativity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_theory_of_relativity

and big bang theory has many other probleam.
string theory do not answer a lote of question...

and there are not having any theory that can realy answer from where it all begin,and what process could began all of this show.....(some will say:why should been begin",other will say,the universe has not begin and not end")

for me :i am claiming:"the time is the only parameter that always been ,and will be....

the time was before the universe been ,while it is been,and even after the universe will finish his time,and it will do that,a long time after we will not been here any more,we are only one cell at this big body:"that call universe"-but one day this will happen ,a maybe new form will be creat,but not necessity by this universe..

sometimes peoples can not understand thinks that they do not see,but this is not mean this is not be..

cohen avshalom charly
israel/haifa
icarus5-universe at time minus

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Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:55 pm
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Post Re: Big Bang Theory
Do you have any better ideas? The universe has either existed forever or it was created. If it has always existed then that opens up questions like why everything is moving away from everything else. If it was created then that brings up questions about the method of creation.

Any theory that deals with the origins of the universe will always be taken on faith since no one was around to witness it.

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Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:06 pm
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Post Re: Big Bang Theory
Rupchuk wrote:
Any theory that deals with the origins of the universe will always be taken on faith since no one was around to witness it.

Or taken as just a theory and nothing more. Also, if everything is moving away from everything else, then why do galaxies collide?
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Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:54 am
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Post Re: Big Bang Theory
coz there's always gotta be SOME dumbass in the way....

what if we're whats ejected from a black hole? all that stuff has to go SOMEwhere...
'course, it would have to be something of a 'one shot', else we'd be able to follow 'spew' to the source...maybe it all accumulates to a critical mass situation, and once ejected, the hole collapses and disappears, thus extinguishing the black hole itself...

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Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:12 am
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Post Re: Big Bang Theory
oddmanin wrote:
coz there's always gotta be SOME dumbass in the way....

what if we're whats ejected from a black hole? all that stuff has to go SOMEwhere...
'course, it would have to be something of a 'one shot', else we'd be able to follow 'spew' to the source...maybe it all accumulates to a critical mass situation, and once ejected, the hole collapses and disappears, thus extinguishing the black hole itself...


No. :-P

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Selected from Niven's Laws:
1. Never throw shit at an armed man.
4. Giving up freedom for security is beginning to look naïve.
9. Ethics change with technology.
10. Anarchy is the least stable of political structures.
16. There is no cause so right that one cannot find a fool following it.


Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:19 am
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