The original question is, "could 1933 happen again?" and that is what brought me to this discussion. On arriving I found it is not about the depression but about the holocaust. But the holocaust did not happen in isolation from the economic conditions of the time or the policies which led to the economic collapse. Germany had one of the most productive economies in the world and was surrounded by trade barriers that blocked the necessary sales to keep production going rather than stockpiling. Rich and influential corporations and individuals from both sides of the issue manipulated the military solution to become richer. The trade unions and the social pact were barriers to the ability of German ruling class to maintain their wealth in the German economy and the trade barriers made it impossible to challenge their competitors on the world market. They needed a way to smash that barrier. Hitler was not the choice or the freind of the productive barons, but he did find ecomomic support and while I do not know this, logic tells me it came from financiers rather than production. That is the way now. Finance is manipulating the crash of stocks to gain direct control of production and using the publicly funded bail out of private financial institutions to consolidate the ownership of real production to their possesion. Hitler was only as charasmatic as money allowed him to be. Destroying the Jewish people and stealing their wealth, blaming them for the economic colapse was useful for the wealth of some of Germany's ruling class and it brought the thugs onside. The war was usefull for the extraction of wealth from public coffers in every nation - just as war is now. Bush senior has certainly profited immensly from the "War on terror" as has Halibuton Corp. The manipulation of people using managed acts of terror brings power to the side that the acts are supposedly challenging. Bush could never have gutted the public purse, pursued illegal wars, lied to the American people in the way he has without the success of 9/11. There is no caos. It only looks that way. Logic that abandons all previously held belief in national honesty of governments and leaders and folows the creation and tranfer of wealth and power changes the picture of caos to that of a logical and well executed plan. Follow the money and power is the best policy when trying to uderstand the manipulation of people and naions. Read Zbignew Bresinski's book, " The Grand Chessboard" published in 1999 and see the outline for tactics used to control the wealth of the "Golden Triangle" and maintain American hegemony at the top of the world economic order. He has been National Security Advisor to Jimmy Carter and advisor to various presidents. To paraphrase closely, he said that America needs another Pearl Harbour like event to win the sympathy of the world and support of the American people to do what it must to control the wealth of the Golden triangle and maintain it's position. The German nation did not believe the perfidity of is leadership in the beginning either, and when they had consolidated their power, it was too dangerous to challenge. The world economy is in shambles again, albiet from different causes. The religious group that has been targeted as the enemy is not Jewish in origin but it is isolated and easily identifiable with a nationality. Manipulation of resistance, financing of "terrorist" actions by the "free" world government through illegal and covert operations is rampant, and overlooked by the citizens and media of the nations involved. Laws similar to those in Germany under the Fascists are in place in America to fight "terrorists" at home and terrorists are defined as those opposing or attempting to replace the government. "Could 1933 happen again?" It is not exacly the same but it's simily is already underway, economically, politically and militarily.

The economy tanked in Germany in the early twenties because of the idiotic Versailles Treaty, which caused Germany to undergo hyperinflation (like inflation, but worse ). In the mid-20s (I forget what year exactly) the Germans got the British and French to waive further payment of the debt. In 1923, with the economy in shambles, the nation just recovering from a literal Communist revolution, and a huge number of people furious about the Kaiser's abdication, Hitler tried to take power in the ill-fated "beer hall putsch." It didn't work, the attempted coup was crushed, Hitler was imprisoned (giving him the opportunity to write Mein Kampf), and the National Socialist Party became something of a laughingstock. But, of course, events would turn again towards Hitler's favor.
The economy started getting back on its feet again in the mid-late 20s, then in 1929 crashed again. We all know that story. All of a sudden, things were bad, and those lunatic Nazis who were making all kinds of promises started looking good. The Depression, together with the "stab-in-the-back" legend, the existing anti-Semitism of the Germans, and the humiliation of World War 1, was what allowed Hitler to regain power in Germany. And he genuinely made the Germany economy better, largely through public works. Then, of course, in '36 when Hitler formally repudiated the Treaty and Germany began rearming, their economy pretty much got back to normal because of all the war-machine-related production. 1933 could happen again, theoretically, but I doubt it would happen in the United States or any other Western country, for that matter. Hitler had a whole lot of different factors working in his favor when he took power.

for

i will just ask you to look at this link:

"Palestinians to publish first-ever ads in Hebrew explaining Arab peace plan "
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1038963.html

if 57 country that will sign peace agreement this is not enough,then you are at problem..


anyway i also will open trade a bout this issue..
icarus5

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only the possibility that this could happen again is "frighten thought ",and not only for the jewish..as i am...


icarus5

Icarus, had we both been in Nazi Germany in 1933 I probably would have been killed years before they did anything to you. The Nazis' first targets were their political opposition.

this is race statement

icarus5

It's racist? No, it's not, it's simple fact. The National Socialists blamed the Reichstag Fire of 1934 on the Communists, which allowed them to get the Enabling Act passed. The Enabling Act granted Hitler dictatorial powers over Germany. And his first exercise of those powers was the systematic destruction, deportation, and murder of the communists, socialists, Social Democrats, and all other political opponents. It is simply a historical fact that the first victims of the Holocaust were not, in fact, Jews, but Hitler's political opponents. If I had been living in 1934 Germany, I, as a democratic socialist (Social Democrat), would have been detained, and then either summarily executed (murdered) or deported for death or slave labor--in 1934.

Why is there no bloody rep on this forum. . .

Icarus what Zephyr says here is true, no only jews persihed in the holocaust. The Nazis political opposition, slavs, romanies and other people of difference did. I do not see how the above statement was in the slight bit rascist. Zephyr is not denying that Jews suffered a great deal under the Nazis merely that they were not the only people to suffer.

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ok after the explain ,i am understanding, that,i was understanding the text with a wrong way...
i am back from my quote,and i am returning from the "race statement..."
i am also must say that after i find the explain ,i am feeling much more with good way..


icarus5

Ain't international forums grand ...people reaching understanding despite language and cultural barriers.



I know, Zephyr has that effect on me also sometimes. But we don't have one because I purely hate them

















I just know you're going up to the Feedback Loop to post off on that Rep thing...